Trans Pacific Partnership

[Hawnjigs]

My understanding is that classic communism as proposed by Marx was ideally a classless society, with ownership, in principle anyway, of resources and production attributed to a common collective. Lenin further expounded that the masses were incapable of leadership and administration, and "revolutionary vanguards" of the more capable should be thus entrusted. The resulting "democratic centrist" organization resulted in one party single elected representative parliamentary body lawmaking.

In practice of course, collective ownership has no significance & nothing changed much, with a few wealthy industrialists and militarists ultimately exercising complete dominance over the working class and hoarding the wealth thru control of centrist government policy. N. Korea can probably be more accurately classified a dictatorship. There does appear to be significant difference in well being of the populace depending on whether the top dog is a psychopath murderer or benevolent liberator.

Thus, labels like "communism" or "capitalism" are meaningless. Its that individuals more greedy and ruthless than the rest tend to rise to the top in their quest for wealth and power in any system. In the USA, they buy media outlets and lawmakers to distract from and assist their relentless quest for more. Without this awareness of the source, we will be dragged like a dog on a lease whining about gay marriage, gun rights, Benghazi, Obamacare, minimum wage, right to work, deficits, nuff.

 

[Hawnjigs]

You know how every politician is yelling "Jobs" to get elected?

Here's how multi-national trade deals have affected our economy. So, one can assume that a politician who supports the TPP is a lying dirtbag who doesn't actually give a sh** about American jobs.

View attachment 9

 

[Hawnjigs]

Most Republicans already had Obama pegged, now maybe they should consider McConnell, Boehner, & Ryan in the same boat.

I met a local gentleman in the parking lot where I fish yesterday, really interesting guy. Salt of the earth, was the town portrait photographer till he retired, and now world travels with a team of doctors donating their time in third world countries. We were talking politics a bit, which in Nebraska is 80% Republican, and his solution to the problems facing America was to weed out the crooks at the polls. Well, here's our chance, find out if your elected officials support the TPP and if so, vote them out. If your rep has the decency and guts to oppose despite pressure from the bosses, cherish them and keep them in office. You also might consider crossing your chosen party line if need be.

 

[Jig Man]

Good advice Hawnjigs.

 

[Bucho]

Not too sure about those job-killing figures... From a german perspective, there´s not much complaint about the chinese buying our tool making machinery and other investment goods. Not too much fear of competition over here when it comes to really free trade, rather consumer product safety and environmental standards. Many small and medium enterprises here market global. Theatre stage curtains, tea-bag-hops for craft breweries etc. show me a niche small enough and I show you a german world marked leader.

Thinking about myself, without free access to US-american molds, small parts etc. I would be effectively cut out of the market by a few big fishing tackle companies(who produce in far east). My venture would be unthinkable as such without overseas small- and homeshop suppliers like Do-It, Hagen´s but also Ali-Baba.

Not a nice thing to compete with countries where worker´s dormitories have barred windows to keep them from jumping out and end their misery, but even the chinese will eventually learn that a growth rate of 8% is not really making them wealthier while having to spend more than 10% of their GDP on ecological damage at the same time and that a sweat-shop labour reputation will not open them really profitable markets. Or attract highly skilled workforce, for that matter.

And as for the ISDS... I just saw an interesting report about some of the very same german politicians who are yelling bloody murder concerning the TTIP are running government-owned energy supply enterprises that sue the spanish governent for what they have because of their cut down on excessive green energy subsideries which they just can´t afford any more... At least they know what they are speaking of

 

[Hawnjigs]

The House with the help of 190 Republican and 28 Democrat votes passed the TPA or Trade Promotion Authority bill that gives President Obama "fast track" authority to expedite passage of his version of the TPP or Trans Pacific Partnership deal. The TAA or Trade Adjustment Assistance bill was tabled for future if any consideration. Basically the TPA surrenders the legislature's right to amend or filibuster trade deals after Obama sends them down for a vote, meaning a yes or no vote is the only mandatory option.

For those not following, the 3 related bills(TPP not up yet) may need clarification:
1. TPP = a secret 11 nation "trade" agreement being drafted by multinational corporate lawyers.
2. TAA = provides assistance to American workers who lose their jobs due to the TPP.
3. TPA = gives Obama sole authority to finalize trade bills without congressional interference.

Make any sense? Why did Republicans with most Democrats opposing pass the TPA? And as PapaPerch pointed out, if the TPP will supposedly create American jobs, why would the TAA be necessary?

Maybe Fox News will have a reasonable answer.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Bucho, according to the impartial few not bribed out by them, the TPP is a flagrant attempt by multi-national corporations to put themselves above the laws of national governments, in essence to become the law unto themselves under the guise of a trade agreement. Why the secrecy?

You think the loss of American jobs is exaggerated? If interested there are a few documentaries about what happened to Detroit, Michigan. Or go to a WalMart if you have one handy and read the "Made in" labels.

 

[Bucho]

Bucho, according to the impartial few not bribed out by them, the TPP is a flagrant attempt by multi-national corporations to put themselves above the laws of national governments, in essence to become the law unto themselves under the guise of a trade agreement. Why the secrecy?

Totally with you on this one, be it TPP or TTip. :icon14:

When it comes to job losses however...
My hometown has inflated by ten during the imperial fleet and canal building programm 120 years ago and was dominated by ship-building ever since, well into the 70`s when far-east competition led to massive laydowns. We could well have gone down the same road as the cities you named. Instead, on the very shipyard I work on, there now is a state of the art 3-d-printer startup, a high-end- art`decor carpenter, the countries first full time jig crafter etc.

In my book, human capital is value. It costs a lot of ressources to train and recruit workforce. Companies don´t employ people out of pity or patriotism, they do it in order to make money. Having to let them go usually means that somedbody (other than the employees) didn´t do his homework and screwed up.

Instead, each time a management fails to think a few years ahead, there´s this whining about competition and globalization. I´m sick of it.

When I went to business school in the 90ties, it was textbook knowledge that a long term bond held an interest rate of at least 6% and a private pension plan was tax-free, resulting in a net interest of 3% after inflation that doubled your saving´s value over 30 years.
Back then, when, say, the french economy imported 5% more stuff than they exported, the franc was depreciated accordingly in the following. Today, they simply print the euros they need to balance their deficit, bond interests are down to half the inflation rate, private pension plans have lost their tax benefit and guess what - I don´t sell them any more. :dodgy:

 

[Hawnjigs]

This a small example of the results of allowing corporate lawyers to draft trade deals. You know those generic drug options that save you money? Briefly:

"When a drug is under patent, generics, which can cut costs by 30-80%, cannot be brought to market. Under WTO rules, pharmaceutical companies can obtain 20-year patents for inventions that are new and non-obvious. But the TPP will enable
pharmaceutical companies to: 1) extend their patents beyond 20 years, 2) re-patent medicines that are already known and thus, are not necessarily inventions, and 3) block the registration of generic products."

There's still time to call your Senator and request opposing the TPA which gives President Obama the power to fast track the TPP secret trade deal.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Bucho, will your bizness survive if someone starts producing replicas of your products in China and marketing for significantly lower prices than yours?

 

[Bucho]

Today I can buy a halfway decent bucktail jig for 0.18ct in China:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2013-New-Wapsi-Bucktail-jig_488252241.html
Is that the end of jig crafting in North America? I guess not. Not if you manage to build a base of customers who can trust on your quality, advice and customer support. We have a guy here who specialized on norway/halibut and has an expertise so profound that his customers pay 17€ (20$) for a simple plastic jig:
http://www.royber.de/Groesse-L-30cm

There`s always a guy who can do it cheaper. Trade barriers don´t help anybody else than the lobby who had them imposed. If an african farmer can produce cane sugar at a third of the cost than a highly subsidised german/ec farmer can, will a downfall of trade barriers help him out of poverty and put the ec farmer out of business? It sure will. So let him do something that holds value instead! And sell it to that african farmer who can pay for it all of a sudden.

Let´s take another example: Finland. Not only since the winter war, they sure hate their communism, more than anything else. That doesn´t however keep them from imposing tax rates up to 60% on their upper 10.000, providing not only free healthcare but also a free "student money". Means college is not only free but students are also granted an allowence that covers their basic costs of living, allowing every high school graduate to study, regardless of their background, no questions asked. The resulting level of education is so high that companies like Nokia and Ericson (swedish but similar) could switch their product range directly from rubber boots (seriously: rubber boots!) to cell phones and other high-tech products.

Other countries sure can make cheaper rubber boots these days... Mine are high-end tretorns from Sweden though. I like my toes warm and dry.

 

[Hawnjigs]

I too nurture a customer base that will pay a fair price for my efforts at delivering exceptional quality & service. The beauty of free enterprise is that those who want cheapest possible or testimonial advertising also have those choices available.

In my observation, international trade is and has been reality. The sugar and pineapple industries that were the lifeblood of the Hawaii economy eventually folded in the '70s due to cheaper overseas sources which growers also received gov subsidies to further enable low prices. Hawaii of course adapted by promoting tourism as an industry - imagine yourself sucking the sweet water of a fresh picked coconut on a white sand beach at the ocean's edge after a fun surfing session. USA consumer goods are already mostly overseas mfg.

The TPP will do little to change the trade status quo, its nothing but a ruse to backdoor another step in the $ & power elite takeover of ... everything. In the past, geographic and cultural boundaries somewhat limited despotic control to countries, now thru the vehicle of multinational corporations the entire world is an oyster.

Nokia started with rubber boots?!

 

[Bucho]

yep. Their daughter Nokian Tyres is still dealing rubber n´stuff.

All I´m saying is that really free trade brings oportunities that are worth the trouble of structural change, given that the country has the ressources and will to handle them.

The very same voices that are yelling for protection from foreign competition for the sake of local jobs are usually the same ones that stand first in line when it comes to socialize risks and privatize profits. We´ve seen enough of that over here, on both sides of the iron curtain.

 

[Jig Man]

Interesting...