Trans Pacific Partnership

[Hawnjigs]

AKA, TPP is being negotiated by our gov, yes the Obama administration, which simply speaking will empower corporations to sue OUR government for lost profits. Currently, Eli Lilly(pharmaceuticals) is suing Canada gov for 500 million $ because of Canada's lesser 8 year drug patent protection, vs. the USA I think 20 years. Australia gov is also being sued by Phillip Morris which set up a Hong Kong shill to backdoor litigation thru an international venue.

 

[StumpHunter]

Sounds about par...

 

[Hawnjigs]

For whatever its worth, I'm NOT political posting, cuz that's mostly meaningless entertainment to hide the behind the scenes wealth and power grabs being finangled into law. The REAL players are laughing at those bickering about ObamaCare, unions, gun control, women's reproductive rights, on&on&on... Mainstream media coverage stops at Repubs vs Dems for us to pick heroes and villains, so its convenient to have a simple one or other right or left leaning choice of info.

The hard facts are out there - Romney was a looter & tax cheat and Obama filled his financial sector oversight positions with Wall Streeters. Browsing Politifact reveals ALL politicians making media statements as liars, just some more often than others.

With practically all politicians bought & paid for by the greedy and powerful, the only defense everyday people have is a collective awareness and voice.

I'm just beginning to understand, and "Follow the money" was a good first step.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Breaking news: President Obama's own party senate democrats rallied today to block his efforts to "fast track" approval of the TPP. Most republicans on the other hand supported Obama's directive. ???

For those interested, here's a brief description of how the TPP may affect US, and why the actual agreement is classified secret and unavailable to the public.

 

[hookup]

F'n lawyers

 

[Hawnjigs]

Dude, you just dissed most of our leaders? Good think this ain't North Korea - ack ack at 30 ft.

Seriously tho, only lawyers can save us from lawyers. There's at least one good one out there. No, not Obama.

The TPP appears to be a trojan horse for the ISDS. If your choice of news media doesn't include that understanding, maybe consult others.

 

[hookup]

Good think this ain't North Korea -

Yeah, but this is America, and last I checked, freedom of speech is still protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and by many state constitutions and state and federal laws.

 

[Jig Man]

Don't worry Hillary is gonna set things straight...

 

[plateboater]

Or China........last time there CNN had a tv on the counter showing what Government was screening out of program........yikes

 

[Bucho]

The TPP appears to be a trojan horse for the ISDS. If your choice of news media doesn't include that understanding, maybe consult others.

Similar concerns over here regarding the TTIP. Getting sued by Vattenfall for exciting nuclear power didn´t help negotiations with the U.S. over "free trade" very much.

Democracy may have been shoved down our throats at gunpoint, but now after 70 years people have gotten somewhat accustomed to the idea that it is elected leaders that make decisions on energy supply and food safety standards rather than multi-national corporations.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Ms. Clinton hasn't clarified her position on the TPP, or many other issues either. She may be incapable of independent thought.

"it is elected leaders that make decisions on energy supply and food safety standards rather than multi-national corporations." Huh, haven't noticed any difference here in the USA...a Vattenfall decision will indicate the extent of corporate power into German government.

Germany appears to be way ahead of the USA with a populist prosperity for all agenda - wages, healthcare, education, energy...and they no longer invade foreign countries.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Here's Rush Limbaugh, the voice of reason:

"Why in the world, when Obama's trade deal is flittering away by the wayside because his own party doesn't want it -- a trade deal that should not be authorized because nobody has seen it -- do all of a sudden Republicans come along to bail it out and essentially make it possible?"

 

[StumpHunter]

Here's Rush Limbaugh, the voice of reason:

"Why in the world, when Obama's trade deal is flittering away by the wayside because his own party doesn't want it -- a trade deal that should not be authorized because nobody has seen it -- do all of a sudden Republicans come along to bail it out and essentially make it possible?"

A good question! Something isn't adding up here.

 

[Jig Man]

Ya'll are still operating under the concept that we have a two party system that runs this country. But it isn't so.... Follow the money!

 

[Hawnjigs]

Unfortunately JM yer mostly correct, but there are a few politicians who genuinely appear to care about ME & maybe you, assuming you're not a tax dodging millionaire. In fact, I just made maybe my first political contribution ever to one minutes ago.

Who you wonder? Not saying, cuz the journey to discovery matters - weeding thru the lies & dodges to uncover truth & understand both.

At the legislative level its obvious who's vote has been bribed - by polluters to gut environmental protection, by Wall St. to weaken the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, by industrial food to prohibit GMO labeling, by "right to work" to keep wage slaves in poverty, by the filthy rich to continue lowering their taxes, on & on.

Learning requires earning, and I'm grateful to the Romney campaign that motivated me to allocate the time. Refreshing to find out I was NOT too bizzy or over the hill to get schooled.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Here's Rush Limbaugh, the voice of reason:

"Why in the world, when Obama's trade deal is flittering away by the wayside because his own party doesn't want it -- a trade deal that should not be authorized because nobody has seen it -- do all of a sudden Republicans come along to bail it out and essentially make it possible?"

A good question! Something isn't adding up here.

And it gets better/worse. Despite the efforts of the Obama/Boehner partnership team to enable Presidential bypass of congress in authorizing the TPP, progressive Democrats and independent thinking Republicans voted down "fast track" legislation in the House of Representatives.

The shirtload, or pantsload, of ensuing bombastic journalism should be interesting...

 

[Hawnjigs]

It appears everyday people taking the time to express themselves might have made a difference.
Here's the usual unwashed rabble protesting outside Rep. Pelosi's office.

View attachment 4

 

[papaperch]

How can some politician explain this : This fiasco was supposed to protect American jobs. Yet a sister bill was introduced to provide funding to assist American workers affected by passage of the " free trade act ". HUH ?

My biggest question on this was why the secrecy. No one was permitted to the details of this agreement. Most of the politicians were voting blindly on this bill based on only rumors of what was in it. Much like our " nuclear deal " with Iran.

In our supposedly " open and free society " why are we permitting this to even occur. We have fallen to the point that we as a democratic republic have permitted rascals and liars to run our country. Might want to brush up on Roman Empire history to see how that worked out for them.

In today's world discussing political questions is considered rude and boorish. To the point that our youth have absolutely no idea about was is so unique about our form of government. Before our country was established most of the world was born into poverty and misery. Only a select few of the merchant class and of course the nobility led any kind of life that approached any kind of content and well being. Indeed who your father was and the family you were born into pre-ordained your lot in life.

After our Constitution was adopted it created a society that has created more wealth by a broader range of people than ever seen before in the annals of man's history. Free from the constraints of a monarchy and caste systems. Prosperity was there for the taking if you were willing to work for it. It offered a chance of success NOT a guarantee. In spawning so much wealth it created a middle class that lived like the wealthy of other countries. America was the hope and dream of many an immigrant who saw that no other country offered such a choice. Sweat and the genius to go with it offered success that was not even dreamed about elsewhere.

Now there are many of our citizens who have listened to how superior European socialism is so great and how fair . Indeed some think communism is the best way. Only those ignorant of history would such choices be appealing. Those that want this are now rewriting history to provide fodder for their vision. Their propaganda is being taught today in our schools.

Our founding fathers were rare men . In their day it was essential that politics be discussed. That freedom of speech and the freedom of press in the bill of rights weren't added to our Constitution to protect the right to discuss the weather or what crops to plant. THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Good to hear you chime in, Papa, cuz I know you are proud of the country that gave you the chance to prosper by your own efforts, and are concerned about the actions of those we've entrusted to lead us. Like me.

The TPP fiasco is absolutely wonderful IMO. What has been leaked to the public is that it was drafted by multi-national corps in secrecy to hide their attempt to position themselves above the law. The ISDS provision, Investor State Dispute Settlement, enables a FOREIGN business entity to sue OUR government for lost profits OUTSIDE our legal system. So, legislators who support the TPP have outed themselves as corporate lackeys beholden only to their contributors. Out in the open, no need to guess who is a lying corrupt bass turd. Also outs legislators who genuinely consider themselves guardians of US by OPPOSING this power grab attempt by the already filthy rich who can afford to buy governments. If your heroes in government or media supports the TPP, well, you've been warned, maybe time to jump on a different horse.

If I may suggest Papa, and I may be wrong, communism at government levels no longer exists except as an emotional buzz word to throw at someone to discredit them. Witch trials and red scare. And socialism is also just a term hammered by a sector of our media to evoke a negative feeling for government benefit programs. I think if one asks the citizens of a country with "socialized" medicine, more accurately described as a single payer system, one might get a different point of view than available on for example Fox News. Lots of polls are available by impartial takers comparing the relative satisfaction of multi-national citizens with their health care. Luckily, our family friends are Norwegian American who travel back & forth so I have first hand input, albeit limited.

So, the TPP issue has more than other partisan politics gamesmanship entertainment exemplified JigMan's assertion that there is really no distinction between Republicans & Democrats. What's dangerous about the TPP is that bought and paid for corrupt politicians of both parties have found common ground to collaborate, like drug cartels calling a truce.

 

[papaperch]

Communist governments still in power. North Korea , Vietnam , Cuba and of course the real big one China. Russia may lapse back into it.

What is amazing is that the greatest comparison of the two systems ? East and West Berlin gave the best example of the great differences of capitalism and communism. East Berliners were shot trying to escape to the west. No west Berliner even tried to go back to the east even if they were free to do so. One side of the wall was thriving economically and the other was destitute. Red China is using capitalism to save its form of government. But a little bit of freedom is kinda like being a little bit pregnant.