Politics - View from the Center

Hawnjigs

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Here are some published excerpts from "Its Even Worse Than it Looks" which is all I have time to peruse.
The authors:
"Thomas E. Mann, a luminary of the ever so slightly left-of-center Brookings Institution, and Norman J. Ornstein, an ornament of the somewhat more firmly right-of-center American Enterprise Institute"

Excerpts:
"We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party."

"The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition. When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country’s challenges."

"It is no longer accurate to describe the Democrats as the liberal party and the Republicans as the conservative party. It’s closer to the truth to say that the Democrats are the conservative party and the Republicans the radical party."

My observation:
The Republicans are skilled manipulators of public opinion. Their incessant strategy of smearing and obstruction of "the other side" plays on one of OUR key subliminal triggers - the urge to blame someone for our problems. With our CEO discredited, WE are more likely to overlook obvious flaws in their rationale, like lowering taxes will reduce the deficit and deliberately gutting & bankrupting businesses is admirable "free enterprise". The goal of Republican players at the top appears to be solely self enrichment regardless of the consequences to US and our country.




 

Radtexan

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Sure sounds like its from the center to me 37.gif

I will however agree with the title of the article ,,,,after the last 4 years it is " Even Worse Than it Looks"
 

AtticaFish

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In my eye those remarks look based on opinion which to me says they have to be thrown up by one side or the other. I used to listen to NPR alot thinking they were un-objective and give the truth...... scandal (last year?) shut the door on that thought.

Center..... can there be a center? There HAS to be a dividing line in the 2-party system or else the universe inplodes on itself and time ticks backward. But both parties will be :trollin: the center 'basin' and hope to 'snag' a few voters. :jig:

4 years ago the Left was so fed up with 8 years the hype was through the roof. Throw in the trump card of a black man running sealed the A.A. vote - deal was done. My belief is that it all comes down to the turn-out of each side which is so simplistic of a thought. Even weather can influence turn-out!
 

Radtexan

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AtticaFish said:
A.A. vote - deal was done. My belief is that it all comes down to the turn-out of each side which is so simplistic of a thought.
And all the other "gonna get me check now" crowd.......
 

AtticaFish

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Radtexan said:
And all the other "gonna get me check now" crowd.......

Probably so, would not put it past the election committees to even run a program 'selling' an idea like that either. Can almost picture voter registration guys with clipboards set up outside the local health department hoping to pick one off here and there. Same would be true on the other end of the red/blue stick just with a different issue attached.

Lets assume that did happen - that only supports my turn-out thought even more. Un-employment numbers were spiking through the roof while cost of living expense grows, so those were the ones who would have had the most urge to get out and do something. Will they be back out and vote AGAIN this time? Doubt it, the majority of benefits would be used up by now so those people won't show while the other side is writhing with the thought that it happened in the 1st place...... and ready to vote them down.

Back and forth.
 

Hawnjigs

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Well, how about "middle"? Point was, that two individuals with differing ideologies collaborated to an agreement, which given the present political climate is ... you fill in the word.

If for whatever reason(s) you accept the premise that the present CEO has ruined us, then probably no amount of stats & facts will sway you, and you will support the handsome rich white guy. You might also accept that our Pres is an African and communist. If you think the present administration economic policies have failed, here's some stats for you.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

I don't consider myself left or right, but indeed I was disgusted at the previous administration's 8 year tenure, particularly invading a foreign country based on flawed "intelligence" aka LIES. Here are the resulting stats:
4,487 USA troops killed
32,223 wounded (not counting psych cases est. 30% of returning troops)
100,000+ Iraqi CIVILIANS killed - wounded?, you tell me
$1,000,000,000,000.00 taxpayer cost - I wonder how much ended up in former CEO of Haliburton Dick Cheney's pocket?

And Republicans want everyone to forget the economy crashed under GWs tenure, and blame the current administration for our woes.

 

AtticaFish

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Easy Hawn..... can't debate if one takes it personaly. Politics can be iffffy that way on forums like this. I love debating with my father because we have totaly opposite views and respect that of each other. Most likely you will not sway anyones vote here and we will not sway yours so do not take it personaly if someone dis-agrees.

Got to stop with the N-word reference also...... yes it is a BIG deal here on the mainland - NO JOKE.
 

Hawnjigs

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OK, I've seen the inflammatory caricature of a snaggle tooth BLACK gal spouting "Where's my free stuff?" If this is a significant foundation of your belief that government assistance programs should be cut, how about the folks who really need help?
1. Disabled and unemployable.
2. Unemployed with no prospects in depressed areas
3. Retired on insufficient fixed incomes or lost pensions
4. Overwhelmed or bankrupted by medical expenses
5. I'm sure you know other scenarios
Sure, there are deadbeats & malingerers who for whatever reasons are unable to be self-supporting. But the alternative to cutting support might include living on the streets, starvation, unattended deaths, and criminal acts. I don't understand how people just needing basic shelter and sustenance are scorned and corporate looters are given a pass or even admired.

Sorry if I seem personal. Just presenting a point of view and uncovering documentation to dispel disinformation. But I do feel strongly about the LIES and inflammatory rhetoric by the propaganda machines, and it probably shows. These postings take a lot of my precious time, and while I realize that many have already made up their minds based on the above, I hope that MAYBE a few might still be questioning.
 

Radtexan

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Hawn,I do my best to stay out of political discussions on forums..but ......

Like Russ said neither side will convince the other of anything.As "Your" stats and facts show....


Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2002_2012_all_period_M05_data.gif

Notice the last 4 years ?
If GW's 1.7 bil deficit caused an economy "Crash" I guess 5 TRILLION is just a hump in the road....
 

Radtexan

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Its all good Hawn....We are all fisher brothers ;)

But if you really want to research ,spend a morning with Neil Boortz,and afternoon with Shawn Hannity,or an evening with Mark Levin....Times may vary in your part of the world...:t-up:
 

AtticaFish

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Hawnjigs said:
Sure, there are deadbeats & malingerers who for whatever reasons are unable to be self-supporting.

In the past 10 years or so (my elidgable voting years once i started paying attention to life) i have seen a change in peoples views of what they wanted for them selves. Maybe everyone else sees the same thing, maybe it is just me, maybe it is just the area i live in. People seem to take the better qualities of living in America for granted...... everyone here has a chance to do something with their life but it is on their own shoulders to bear some of that weight. I am sure there are odd circumstances and exceptions that prove the rule but i see it ALOT where people just expect things.

Example: There is a huge, very nutrient rich area of farmland just East of my local city. Locals call it the 'Muck' because of its dark colored soil. There are several decent sized farming companys that own pieces of the land - it is a very large area that was once a drainage of huge swampland before the location was colonized. Each year in the spring, there is a MAJOR influx of imigrant workers that come up from the south to take jobs that open up left and right for seasonal farm work. Yet the neighboring 2 counties un-employment rate of RESIDENTS still rises??? Why can't we put the residents to work instead of imigrants that many are not even legal?

It just seems like many many people refuse to get down and TRY to do for themselves. In my own belief system, i would work anywhere i could find to get a pay check but it seems like there are more and more who do the math and say it makes more sense to just let everyone else pay their way. Job is a job.

Some people do NEED assistance, but how do we figure out the ones who need it from the ones who want it?
 

Hawnjigs

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"If GW's 1.7 bil deficit caused an economy 'Crash" I guess 5 TRILLION is just a hump in the road...."

Um, I'm not being argumentative, but from my limited understanding the current deficit includes the expense of remediating the effects of the Crash of '08 that occured during the previous administration's tenure. Not sure why "1.7 bil" is significant since the GW administration initiated the financial sector bailouts totaling almost 2 trillion before BO took office. And arguably, while the crash occurred "on his watch", the unprecedented and unpopular bailouts of GWs term may have prevented or at least forestalled a more serious calamity.

 

Radtexan

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AtticaFish said:
Hawnjigs said:
before BO took office.

I like the 'BO' reference MUCH better. :D
I liked the BEFORE much better ;)

current deficit includes the expense of remediating the effects of the Crash of '08..eek2.gif

Sorry bud,I dont know where yall get all these buzz words...Is that kinda like BHO's "Evolve" lately Notice you didnt mention the 3
TRILLION that came after you so called accounting ?
 

Hawnjigs

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I apologised in a previous post about my use of large words. Dunno, they are the ones that come to me to express thoughts, not pre-meditated to buzz. Oops, did it again, blame my college ejukayshun and high school nerding.

Don't have access to station TV, so online sites are my only information tool.

This dialogue is great for inspiring me to research - found this.
http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/us_deficit
Which prompts my question - what does the 1.7 bil refer to? And, you'll notice I passed along praise for GW where it was due.
 

Hawnjigs

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Holy Muck - migrant workers in Ohio? I've seen docus that conclude if illegals didn't do the ag work, labor intensive crops would likely be unharvested. Personally, I respect EVERYONE working for a living AND the unfortunate CITIZENS relying on public assistance. Discriminatory welfare support might force some to turn to criminal activities to survive.
 

Jig Man

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I hate election years....:argue: I wonder why so few people get out and vote. It is amazing how few voted in our local election Tuesday!!! Maybe I'm just a little off center, but I think BOTH parties have sold us down the river for their own gain....JMO
 
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