DECEPTION OR IGNORANCE

[JUNGLEJIM1]

I picked up an issue of In fisherman magazine recently along with the 2013 Ice fishing issue because I saw a couple articles that caught my eye concerning guys using tungsten beads with their hand tied jigs so they sink faster and get down to the fish quicker,catching tons of fish with them because they are twice as heavy as lead. Naturally after reading the articles I ordered a couple hundred tungsten beads in two sizes,3mm and 3.5 mm and they arrived yesterday. The 3mm is the size of a 1/80 jig head and the 3.5 is like a 1/64 jig head.I got out my digital scale and weighed them to compare the tungsten with the leadheads. To my surprise the molded lead jigs are heavier than the tungsten bead of the same size. The tungsten beads are drilled out and countersunk because they were designed to be put on a fly hook,not a jig hook. Due to the drilling of these beads a leadhead jig of the same size as a tungsten bead will sink faster than the tungsten bead jig head. If the tungsten was molded around the hook like a leadhead I'm sure the tungsten would weigh more but the drilled beads sure don't. Unless I can find tungsten jigs at a reasonable price I'll stick with my leadheads and use the beads for fly tying. These "experts" were wrong in this case.Still like the magazine and it has some great and useful articles in it.I bought my first IN FISHERMAN MAGAZINE back in the 80's and still have most of them.I believe I was either deceived with the articles or the guys who wrote the article don't test stuff like I do. Maybe I think too much and have too much time on my hands to play with this stuff.

 

[Fatman]

Jim I'd have to say your right. I've talked to the guys on the fly boards and one of the guys over there did the same weight check as you did, although he was seeing how close to a 1/80th and 1/100th jig and he came up with just about the same as you. Like you I had the magazines back into the 80's but got tired of hauling them around with all the moves. I sent all of them plus all of my BassMasters with the local guard unit to pass around overseas.

I have to think most of the authors don't test out what they write about, look at the other article on hair jigs that was posted a while ago - we've all been tying them for years and the article made out like they were something new.

 

[AtticaFish]

Wow - not too much thinking - keep testing these SOB's and prove them wrong! Read pretty much every issue of In-Fish. I was getting close to making out a large purchase (for me) of tungsten beads but am going to re-think that now. Huh - i am stunned a little. I am an avid In-Fish reader and they have been touting the idea of using the Tung. beads on fly hooks for a while now.

The 'Mythbuster' in me wants to know......... how did you weigh them? To get an accurate measure, i think you should do them in lots of 10 and divide it out to get the average number. Weigh out 10 LEAD head jigs of the same approx. size and compare to the weight of 10 Tung. beads WITH 10 hooks of similar size.

 

[JUNGLEJIM1]

AF,I weighed them in 25 counts. I took 25 1/80 leadheads on a #10 sickle and compared it to 25 3mm tungsten beads with 25 #10 sickles. I didn't put the beads on the hooks but placed them on the scale with the tungsten beads. The leadheads easily weighed more. I should have written down the weights of both but didn't think about it. Was doing the experiment at about 2 am this morning. I'm really surprised the experts that I look up to didn't try something as simple as what I did. If you still want some beads I'll trade some of mine for fly hooks. I still want to tie some of those baits in the article but I'm short on the fly hooks.

 

[JUNGLEJIM1]

Further observations with the tungsten beads are that they are flat on one side and not round so consequently they take up less room on the hook.The volume of the 3.5 mm tungsten is close to the 1/80's,but are still a little lighter by themselves.With a hook they are close to the same weight. I also checked to make sure they were tungsten by heating one up for 15 seconds and it didn't melt. A lead jig would have melted in less than 1/3 that time.I think they would be great on fly hooks but not jig hooks as much so.The articles show both tungsten jigheads and the beads and at times it's hard to determine which one they are talking about.I'm going to check out some sources for tungsten jigs plus pricing. I think if the price isn't too high I'll give some a try. I read the article again and I think they are talking more about the tungsten jigs themselves.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Considering that a poured Sickle or VMC micro jig head material cost is under a nickel, how does a tungsten bead + hook cost compare?

Beading might be best choice for weighting hooks for which molds aren't available.

Is there any situation where a theoretically smaller size tungsten head on a jig will be of significant functional advantage?

 

[AtticaFish]

PURE tungsten is more dense than lead, so a lead bead and a tungsten bead of identical dimension - the tungsten would be considerably heavier. Advantage would be that you could have the additional weight in a smaller overall size.

But - from what i have read - it is so hard to cast fishing jigs/weights with that the companies use filler material that makes it easier to work with.... and at the same time the material is no longer pure, so it is not as heavy as it COULD be. With all the hype and attention tungsten has been getting as a non-toxic material that is supposed to be heavier than lead, the companies are leading us on a little. Never would have thought as much as what you found though JJ.

 

[JUNGLEJIM1]

Hawn,cost of tungsten bead + hook is at least three times the cost of a poured sickle or vmc. The larger the bead the higher the cost. $3.95 for twenty 4mm beads from the place I got my 3.5's. In theory they are great for deep water winter fishing because they get down deep quicker where the fish are in comparison to the same weight leadhead. Checked on ebay and tungsten ice jigs are over $2 each. I found a place online that sells 1.9 gram jigheads on a #6 mustad for .74 centas each. Have no idea what that is in USD. Does anyone know where I can find a 1/32 roundhead tungsten jig without having to take out a second mortgage ? The guy who wrote the In fish article talked about them a lot.

 

[Fatman]

Ran it on bizrate and the cheapest unpainted one came up $4.39 EACH!!! They also list Hareline as carrying them but I couldn't get a price listed on those (I'm at work). Check back on the article they used to list the suppliers of the stuff used in the articles.

 

[AtticaFish]

??? http://tungstenforfishing.weebly.com/index.html ???

Over seas.

 

[Shoemoo]

Tungsten has a melting point of 6,191 degrees F. Tungsten items for fishing are actually tungsten powder mixed with another material. The other material can make the final object lighter than lead, but different companies use different materials with different concentrations of tungsten. Unless the author named the brand and you bought the same product, it's difficult to compare.

So it's possible the beads they mentioned did perform as stated.

 

[smalljaw]

When jigs are made from Tungstun they aren't cast, instead they use a process called "sintering" (sp). The Tungston is placed in a mold somehow and then it gets molded on to a hook through pressure of some kind. I'm not exactly sure on the sintering process but I was told that the cost of Tungstun is only a small part of the expense, it is very difficult to make things like jigs and the equipment needed to do it is very expensive and that is the reason for the extreme cost. Whoever said it is mixed with other materials is also correct, but it just isn't filler, some of the additives are for the sintering process.

 

[Shoemoo]

Manufacturers use msintering and resin binders, depending on the product. Sintering takes high heat just not as high as melting. It's anywhere from 2,000 to 3,000 degrees F depending on the mixture. Sintering is still expensive and the temps required are higher than the melting point of most steel.

Considering the costs for suspending tungsten powder in polymer resin is cheaper, I'm willing to bet that's the method most manufacturers of fishing equipment are using. You can read more about it here:

http://www.tungstenheavypowder.com/Tungsten_Heavy_Powder/Lead_Replacement/lead_replacement.html

 

[JUNGLEJIM1]

Thanks for all the info.I'd still like to try a few jigheads although I'm not sure why. The lakes I fish locally aren't very deep. I was hoping to find some for 50 cents or less each but I guess that's not going to happen. If anyone does let me know. AF, that was the site I looked at. Anyone know what a centas is in USD.

 

[Fatman]

If what I found is correct centas is" centas plural of cen·tas Noun: A monetary unit of Lithuania, equal to one hundredth of a litas.

XM currency converter - I did 10 litas to USD and this is what you get:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=10&From=LTL&To=USD

 

[AtticaFish]

Wasn't Skip on CDC using slotted beads to go on jig hooks? Not sure where you got yours from or if they are slotted or regular beads. Lots of the slotted ones on the market.....

http://www.google.com/webhp?source=...72e3ce7e892c18&bpcl=38897761&biw=1067&bih=433

 

[JUNGLEJIM1]

Mine are regular beads.I have some larger tungsten barbells and slotted cone heads in two sizes as well. Need to work with these.I think I will stop by Feathercraft and pick up some small tungsten barbells since they are solid and tie some with those.The large barbells weigh about 1/11 oz. The two slotted coneheads I have weigh 1/20 and 1/40 oz. They are funky tying them on a jig hook. Already have a couple ideas that I want to try with those,somethingI havn't seen before.

 

[Fatman]

A guy on Fly Anglers online was selling them for the longest time but hadn't seen any lately. I'll check to see if he's still selling them.

Jim are you picking up the "Mad Scientist" bug from Toad!!!LOL

 

[papaperch]

For ice fishing I normally use at least a 4 foot leader of 2- 4 lb. usually the leader is some superbraid ice fishing line such as Berkleys crystal ice. Any extra weight I need for fishing deeper waters I get by using an extra split shot crimped on the main line. Hence I never fooled with the tungsten stuff as I never needed it. Reason I don't crimp split shot to leader portion is I believe any pinching of line weakens it at that point. The main line is 15 lb braid ( power pro ) and can tolerate the slight damage. The leader line which is 3/4 lb mono equivalent is less tolerant of any pinching. Also when pinching on leader fish will often hit the split shot as observed on camera. When split shot is well above your lures it does not affect its normal movement of your lures nor distract the fishes attention from the intended targets.

In-Fisherman magazine was a great mag when it started. It was started as an education tool at first and was very successful at its intent. Over the years and after ownership change its has become a more of a " selling tool " than an education tool. Sometimes there are still an excellent article or two . But it pales in comparison to its older self.

I used to get the Ice- Fishing annual every year and noticed that it started to represent a catalog more than anything else. Every year a lot of the stories rang too similar. Writer takes new lure along. Partner or partners scoff at lure or trash it somehow. Writer starts to slay fish on this newest , greatest thingamabob. Partners beg for one and then they also start to slay the fish. The only things that change are the names , the lure , and the locale. Over these many years I am sure most of you have learned the same thing I have. To catch fish you have to find them. Next you have to figure out what they want on that given day. Next how do they want it presented to them. Finally speed and color come into play. Best lure or bait in the world does no one any good if the fish aren't where you are fishing.

Most of you would be surprised at the number of ice anglers that sit on the only two holes they have drilled that day and catch nothing. Why ......???

 

[AtticaFish]

For ice fishing I normally use at least a 4 foot leader of 2- 4 lb. usually the leader is some superbraid ice fishing line such as Berkleys crystal ice.

You use a braid leader? I thought you had to have a mono (or fluoro) leader when you were using braid as main line because of the difficulty using knots whit braid...... what type of knot do you use to attach your lure/hook?